Ralph Peters, Mark Steyn, and A Future Muslim Europe?
Ralph Peters, a columnist I have often read in the New York Post, in an interview with Front Page in reposnse to America Alone, a book by Mark Steyn, that has been reposted on the blog The Sophistry, talks about the growing fear of “Eurabia” from many in the West who are feeling threatened by the growth of Islam in Europe and the notion that Europe will turn into a Muslim Continent, which many including myself, have predicted will occur without the emergence of a new form of national socialism or a return to traditional values in Europe which would lead to people having more children thus reducing the need for immigrants and warm bodies to join a future fight whether it be cultural or violent in nature. Peters, who is kind of a conservative pro-war insider, has a different take:
FP: “Eurabia” is a true nightmare scenario, correct?
Peters: No. Malthusian linear projections never fulfill themselves (and hysteria is never productive). But, beyond that, the notion that Europe, the continent that’s exported more death and destruction than any other, is going to just shuffle wimpily to its doom is crazy. The Europeans have been playing pacifist dress-up while we protected them, but, sufficiently threatened, they’ll revert to their historical pattern–which is to over-react. Europe’s Muslims may prove to be the real endangered species; after all, Europe’s history of dealing with rejected minorities veers between genocide and, for the lucky, ethnic cleansing. For me, the question isn’t whether Muslims will take over Europe, but whether Europe will simply expel them or kill any number of them first. Sound far-fetched? How would the Holocaust have sounded to an educated German (or Brit, or American) in 1932? Europe is a killer continent. When the chips are down, it will kill again.
These are historical facts Peters is talking about and we can see this with the history of Jews, Gypsies, Bulgarians, Bosnians, Irish, Russians, any number of groups in Spain and others in the history of Europe. No people, anywhere on Earth, has shown a greater will to use violence to spread their political, religious and social agenda in their own backyard and abroad as we saw in the rape and pillage of Africa, the colonization of Asia, the genocide of Native Americans in the Americas, and the like. The question is, has Europe advanced beyond that stage as most believe? Or, the question I will pose, in a hedonistic and post-Christian Europe, do the people have the energy within them and the courage to confront perceived threats or are they too busy sipping wine on the Riviera and engaging in perverse behaviours to even care about anyone but themselves? Or, on the flip side, will the lack of Christan values, and the prominence of secular rationalization, allow them to crush those they see as a threat without any sense of morality or compassion and how does that play into a scenario Peters described?
The conservative writer Mark Steyn, in an alarmist tone, disagrees with Peters and believes that the process of Europe becoming a Muslim Continent (which I being a Muslim would welcome) is irreversible;
It’s true that there are many European populations reluctant to go happily into the long Eurarabian night.” What I point out, though, is that, even if you’re hot for a new Holocaust, demography tells. There are no Hitlers to hand. When Mr Peters cites the success of Jean Marie Le Pen’s National Front, he overlooks not only Le Pen’s recent overtures to Muslims but also the fact that M Le Pen is pushing 80. As a general rule, when 600 octogenarians are up against 200 teenagers, bet on the teens. In five or ten years’ time, who precisely is going to organize mass deportations from French cities in which the native/Muslim youth-population ratio is already – right now - 55/45?
As I’ve said innumerable times, the native European population is split three ways: some will leave, as the Dutch (and certain French) are already doing; some will shrug and go along with the Islamization of the continent, as the ever-accelerating number of conversions suggests; and so the ones left to embrace Fascism will be a minority of an aging population. It will be bloody and messy, as I write in America Alone, but it will not alter the final outcome. If you don’t breed, you can’t influence the future. And furthermore a disinclination to breed is a good sign you don’t care much about the future. That’s why the Spaniards, who fought a brutal bloody civil war for their country in the 1930s, folded instantly after those Madrid bombings. When you’ve demographically checked out of the future, why fight for it?
If we take the scenario of Steyn, which may not be that far-fetched, and look at his three groups I have another take. His first group, those leaving Europe, have to go somewhere, and the question is where will they go? An America where, due to immigration, whites are becoming a minority? A Black ruled South Africa? The new powers of India, China, and Brazil? Those are hardly destinations I can see conservative minded Europeans heading to. What does that leave them with; Australia, Canada, and New Zealand; all fine places to live, but all with growing Muslim populations themselves.
The second group Steyn speaks of, those shrugging off the growth of Islam and those converting, he sees as those who have capitulated to Muslims; but I, as a Western convert myself, see as a group that have accepted the grace of al-Islam, not through the sword, but through the piety of their Muslim neighbors and the strength of the message of the Quran and Sunnah and far from being a threat to Europe this group is an asset to Europe.
Steyn is right on the third group; if you do not breed you do not care about the future and there will be no one left to fight your battles, so you may see small fascist groups in Europe in the future, but unless they merge within the next 10 or 15 years, it will be too late for them and they will be dwarfed by the tide of Islam and that is a good thing masha’Allah and due to the failed future of the Western Right on racial and religious grounds that is why I tell my Muslim brothers and sisters that in the long run, with their seeking to change the culture and deen of the Muslims based on secular humanist values, the cultural left poses a greater threat.
July 25, 2007 at 2:13 am
May Allah help the Muslims in the west to stay steadfast to their values and bring positive benefit to their societies.
Ameen (click) !
July 25, 2007 at 4:54 am
I came across a hadith buried in the books about a massacre befalling Arabs or Muslims in the lands of Kufr near the End Times. I’ll look for it then paste it here translated with the citation.
The guy who predicted Europe massacring foreigners is amazingly insightful; he digested the history of Europeans’ relations with non-Europeans. For some reason Whites seem to be such a ruthless, vicious race. Colonial France, if you don’t know, killed five million Algerians in the decades preceding the Algerian war of independance (this war alone cost the Algerians 1.5 million martyrs plus the 5 millions). And look what America (a nation dominated by Europeans, thus a European nation like al-Andalus was once an Arabic, Muslim region) look what America has been doing to Iraq: in the current war almost one million deaths (and I won’t talk about the millions of refugees here), and a quarter of a million Iraqis killed to liberate Kuwait in the 1991 war, half a million to one million Iraqis killed during the war with Iran of Khomeini (which the Capitalist West created, after agreeing to topple the Shah, in order for a religous state to stand a bulwark in the face of sprading Communism, then approaching the warm Gulf ports from former republic of southern Yemen and Afghanistan -when the communists overthrew the Afghan Shah), and God knows how many Iraqis from Saddam’s army died before the first battle in Iraq ended 4 years ago (before the Jihadists took over the fight), and half a million (or was it a million and a half) Iraqi babies died during the sanctions? (Forgot the exact figure). And almost 300,000 Palestinians died as a result of the Europeans exporting their ‘Jewish Problem’ overseas (as they usually do) and establishing Israel!!!
And the millions of Africans who drowned while crossing the Atlantic as slaves of the European “masters”, those many others killed for trying to escape slavery, the 500 MILLION “Amerindians’ who perished as a result of the European expansion into the “New World”, and only Allah, only Allah knows how many others died as a result of coming into contact with the Europeans beasts!!!!!!
July 25, 2007 at 5:58 am
It’s mathematically impossible for 50 million Moslems to overrun a continent of 800 million Europeans. Both of these men are paranoid, but the murderous intent of their words is a warning for all minorities.
July 25, 2007 at 6:58 am
Umar,
Before you welcome a Muslim Europe please be aware of the quality of Muslims you have in Europe. There are relatively three major Muslim groups in Europe that you can consider because of their religious, cultural and ethnic commonalities. There are the Turks in Germany, the South Asians in Britain, and the North Africans in France. Now considering the deen, generally of these groups, what kind of Islam will you seen in Europe?
The irony of describing growing Muslim demographics in Europe as Eurabia (Arab-Europe) has far more to do with Europe’s position with regard to the Isreal/Palestinian than it has to do with its changing population. None of the groups I mentioned before are really Arab save the North Africans in France, though it would be best to describe them as Arabized.
Europe is Eurabia because it is seen by the right as being too pro- Arab.
July 25, 2007 at 8:02 am
@ bikhair,
North Africans in France are Arabs, be them from Berber (Amazigh) origin or “Arabians” (descended from Arabia and arrived to the region with the Islamic conquests). There are many historians there who will argue with you that the Berbers are originally Arabs. I am in the process of having a book shipped to me from Egypt, titled ‘The Arab Gods of Egypt’, which will clarify the similarities between the ancient Egyptian “language”, Tmazight (the language of Berbers) and Arabic. I’ve already seen articles in Arabic that discuss the similarities between ancient Egyptian and Arabic, but I’m yet to read about the relation between the Berber language and Arabic. I already can detect similarities between modern Tmazight and the language of the people of Thamud in southern Arabia (the destroyed people of Prophet Saleh; their language is still spoken in southern Arabia, and there is resemblance in its sound to the language of Berbers I heard several years ago).
Any attempts by historians and orientalists to distance away ancient Egyptians, Berbers, Assyrians, Chaldeans, Canaanites and Phoenicians..from their Arabian origin..are futile, and are all sprining from a colonial desite to further divide the vast Arab World. Our history was, sadly, written by our enemies, but we’ve been revising it, slowly but steadily.
July 25, 2007 at 8:04 am
typos corrected:
“…are all SPRINGING from a colonial DESIRE…”
July 25, 2007 at 8:46 am
“that is why I tell my Muslim brothers and sisters that in the long run, with their seeking to change the culture and deen of the Muslims based on secular humanist values, the cultural left poses a greater threat.”
Thats why America is so much smarter than Europe, (in seeking their own interests)
and their promotion of “moderate Islam” as to some what possessed by those who call themselves “progressive” and sponsering
Muslim Academics which foster such ideas or sympathize with it,, is much more effective than pushing enimity with Muslims..
I guess preserving the deen is a must in your socitey…g2g
July 25, 2007 at 9:05 am
These articles are pure hysteria.
Islamic rule is not even happening in Muslim majority countries, never mind Muslims taking over Europe.
July 25, 2007 at 9:10 am
I’ve just noticed something really strange.
I made a slight typo when typing in my blog address for the comment above and the comment link directed to a Christian website.
I wonder if this is happening to any other Muslim’s blogs.
July 25, 2007 at 10:34 am
That problem happens with all .blogspot blogs I think, not just the muslim ones. Enter in blogpsot.com and it goes to the same site everytime. Sorry to digress :)
“the prominence of secular rationalization, allow them to crush those they see as a threat without any sense of morality or compassion”
I don’t particularly understand what secular rationalization has to do with lack of compassion or lack of morality. As if the use of religious rationalization both today and in the past has had such an astounding track record of compassion and morality
July 25, 2007 at 11:11 am
Planned Massacre of Muslims in Europe ?!
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The plan :
http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=1086
“The Third World War must be fomented by taking advantage of the differences caused by the “agentur” of the “Illuminati” between the political Zionists and the leaders of Islamic World. The war must be conducted in such a way that Islam (the Moslem Arabic World) and political Zionism (the State of Israel) mutually destroy each other. Meanwhile the other nations, once more divided on this issue will be constrained to fight to the point of complete physical, moral, spiritual and economical exhaustion…We shall unleash the Nihilists and the atheists, and we shall provoke a formidable social cataclysm which in all its horror will show clearly to the nations the effect of absolute atheism, origin of savagery and of the most bloody turmoil. Then everywhere, the citizens, obliged to defend themselves against the world minority of revolutionaries, will exterminate those destroyers of civilization, and the multitude, disillusioned with Christianity, whose deistic spirits will from that moment be without compass or direction, anxious for an ideal, but without knowing where to render its adoration, will receive the true light through the universal manifestation of the pure doctrine of Lucifer, brought finally out in the public view. This manifestation will result from the general reactionary movement which will follow the destruction of Christianity and atheism, both conquered and exterminated at the same time.”
—————————————————
http://who-are-the-illuminati.blogspot.com/
Since the tactic didn’t include the survival of western societies in the middle run (beyond those 20 years), these were some other tactics used :
- increase to maximum intensity the brainwash agenda of the masses in the West, so that these could be reduced to zombies (total sheeple), incapble of reacting even at the sight of the doors of the slaugherhouse.
Examples of how the brainwash agenda “GOOD is BAD and BAD is GOOD” was pushed to the utter limits (4) (7) : homosexual political leaders; gay adoption; pedophile “priests”; child pornography; sex slavery trade; legalised genocide of elder in hospitals and homes for elderly as “euthanasia”; generalised drugs addiction : pills, chemical food, marihuana, ecstasy, cocain, heroine, etc (5); genocide of believers.
mass immigration of muslims to the West. One of the reasons was to use them as a weapon of terror against the natives, as some of these would start reacting, finally realising they were being transported to the slaughter house. Muslim leaders would keep these masses quiet, with the real prospect that in “a few years we will be the majority and will take the power”. (6)
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July 25, 2007 at 11:14 am
Check this book.
—————-
“Final Solutions: Mass Killing and Genocide in the 20th Century ” by Benjamin A. Valentino
——————–
The author finds that ethnic hatreds or discrimination, undemocratic systems of government, and dysfunctions in society play a much smaller role in mass killing and genocide than is commonly assumed. He shows that the impetus for mass killing usually originates from a relatively small group of powerful leaders and is often carried out without the active support of broader society. Mass killing, in his view, is a brutal political or military strategy designed to accomplish leaders’ most important objectives, counter threats to their power, and solve their most difficult problems.
July 25, 2007 at 11:16 am
http://who-are-the-illuminati.blogspot.com/
Since the tactic didn’t include the survival of western societies in the middle run (beyond those 20 years), these were some other tactics used :
- increase to maximum intensity the brainwash agenda of the masses in the West, so that these could be reduced to zombies (total sheeple), incapble of reacting even at the sight of the doors of the slaugherhouse.
Examples of how the brainwash agenda “GOOD is BAD and BAD is GOOD” was pushed to the utter limits (4) (7) : homosexual political leaders; gay adoption; pedophile “priests”; child pornography; sex slavery trade; legalised genocide of elder in hospitals and homes for elderly as “euthanasia”; generalised drugs addiction : pills, chemical food, marihuana, ecstasy, cocain, heroine, etc (5); genocide of believers.
mass immigration of muslims to the West. One of the reasons was to use them as a weapon of terror against the natives, as some of these would start reacting, finally realising they were being transported to the slaughter house. Muslim leaders would keep these masses quiet, with the real prospect that in “a few years we will be the majority and will take the power”. (6)
July 25, 2007 at 11:28 am
Mr Lee it seems that you have bought into the hype that Europe is a godless continent filled with shallow materialists and you are making several mistakes in your analysis
I have to agree with Bikhair, “White Watch” and Safiya
* First of all, I find it tough to believe that even those making these arguments believe this. There are still hundreds of millions of white Europeans in Europe and the overall population of Muslims in Western Europe is around 2% at best?? (It is around 4-5% INCLUDING the Balkins and and Russia)
* The Europeans would have to COMPLETELY stop having children for 50 years for the Muslims to be close to EQUAL in population. Do we think that Europeans are not having babies AT ALL?
Further, as Muslims adopt European values (READ: stop having as many children) fertility rates will begin to fall to the level of the whites.
If the birth rates in Tunisia have fallen below the levels needed to sustain the population over the long term what makes us think that European Muslim fertility rates will remain so high?
N African women in France are already beginning to delay child birth until later like their white counterparts and we can expect that many will marry non-Muslims.
So even if current trends remain (which is highly unlikely) it would take a century to even see the Muslims become a significant minority.
* Not only are they looking at things regionally -mainly concentrating on France, and the UK and forgeting about countries like Sweden, Switzerland, Finland, Greece, Norway, Portugal, Ireland, Poland, Romania and Italy which all have negligible Muslim populations, but they are looking at certain cities with significant minorities
When it comes to the UK, people think that when they visit West London that Muslims are “taking over” forgetting that London is not all of the UK and that Muslims are only a fraction of the OVERALL population and even in London just 10% of the population of the metro area (all of the UK is 2.5% Muslim)
Rotterdam is 50% Muslim (but the entire nation is 4% Muslim). Brussels is 20% Muslim. Yes, Muslims are highly concentrated in particular cities, but this does not represent all of Europe. It is as assinine as saying that the US is going to become Muslim after visiting Brooklyn. Then on top of that, we must remember that the vast majority of these Muslims are pretty secular (70% in France say they do not go to a masjid) Then for Steyn to state that Europeans will suddenly begin to convert to Islam in larger numbers at the hands of these marginal Muslims is a stretch (and Allah knows best). European converts are extremely rare and 99.99% of them are immigrants
The entire thing is so assinine that I can’t beleive that it is taken seriously.
The thing I see possible is that the Europeans might feel threatened from hearing this all the time and do mass deportation or genocide at some point in the future
July 25, 2007 at 12:59 pm
As salaam alaikum Umar,
Great post… Thanks Allot!
July 25, 2007 at 2:17 pm
[...] don’t know the man and his politics seems unclassifiable to me — although based on this post, it is clear that he doesn’t know the first thing about Mark Steyn who is anything but [...]
July 25, 2007 at 2:58 pm
52% of Hispanics consider themselves White!
Lol. Yeah okay Jose.:P
July 25, 2007 at 3:33 pm
Any attempts by historians and orientalists to distance away ancient Egyptians, Berbers, Assyrians, Chaldeans, Canaanites and Phoenicians..from their Arabian origin..are futile, and are all sprining from a colonial desite to further divide the vast Arab World
Has gaddafi secured internet connection?
As a Berber I am extreamly offend by your baseless arabofacist garbage. Was Ibn Kalhdun a Agent of the colonists? Or was it Herodotus? Dide Napolian have tea and crumpet’s with them during his stay Saint Helena?
Who next? The Chinease Arabs.loool.
Goodness you semite’s seriosly are mentailly ill. I think I understand why hitler put the jews into the oven because we may very well be doing it in Tamazgha……
July 25, 2007 at 4:09 pm
Rodan,
So you are contending that Hispanic immigration to the USA does not make the country less white? Umm………unless you havent noticed, Hispanics are not white, hence any major immigration of Hispanics into the country without an equal or greater influx of white immigrants (or higher white birth rate) means that Hispanic immigrants are making the country less white.
Hispanic culture is a mix of native American Indian, African and Spanish/Portugese culture. Having spent a lot of time in Spain in the last ten years I can tell you that there are a lot of Hispanic immigrants in Spain and their reception is NOT what you might think. They are having major issues assimilating Hispanics because they DO NOT share the same cultures.
Linguistically even there is a pretty big difference between the Spanish spoken in Spain and that spoken in Central and South America. They put up with it for the same reasons America does, because they need the cheap labour.
You said “Oh according to the census 52% of Hispanics consider themselves White!”
Sure, so does Michael Jackson. Because you think you are white does not make you white. What the number you quoted shows me is that 52 of Hispanics polled have an issue with not being white and are ashamed of being brown.
http://www.expatica.com/actual/article.asp?subchannel_id=82&story_id=4276
July 25, 2007 at 5:26 pm
Umar,
Excellent thread topic - one of your best!
Both men’s thesis are worth consider, though I’m more with Steyn.
BILL
July 25, 2007 at 6:20 pm
Abu Sinan,
Most Mexicans are mestizo- a mix of Indian and European. Even on a census you have the option of choosing non white hispanic. If you want to see what Central Americans are like I guess you could watch one of those Spanish speaking talk shows. The host is a true white woman and her guests and audience are dark brown. I always trip when I watch those shows.
July 25, 2007 at 7:00 pm
Below is an interesting article that I came across and thought I would share with you guys. It gives you an insight of how the right-wing republicans think of muslims in their racist little world. It was an eye opener for me.
Ship of Fools http://www.alternet.org/module/printversion/57001
July 25, 2007 at 7:22 pm
Bikhair,
I am aware of the mestizo/mulatto mix in Central and South America. The fact that someone has some small amount of white ancestry 400 years ago really doesnt qualify one to be considered white.
I have found the Hispanics who self-identify as white are very similar to the Lebanese who refuse to admit they are Arabs, rather they want to claim they are Phoenician because Phoenicians ruled the area around Lebanon some 3,000 years ago.
It is the very same for these two groups. It is a skewed sense of racial identity, often self-loathing, that causes them to identify with a ethnical/racial groups with which they have little or no ties to.
Some of these same Lebanese will refuse to speak Arabic and would rather speak French, which is more than a bit ignorant because the Phoenician language itself is a semitic language, although it has been dead for hundreds and hundreds of years.
I have seen the shows you are talking about, but I dispute your term “true white woman”. Because someone has white skin does not make them white/European. When “white” is on a census form that is usually what it means. It is not so much a colour indicator, rather an ethnicity marker.
Would an albino African American check off the “white” box because they have white skin colour? The other thing that bothers me is that Middle Easterners are usually told to check the white/caucasion box even though they are not white, certainly not caucasion.
I have met many Hispanics who could “pass” for white, but it doesnt make them so.
The one ray of hope I see is that now the box “multi-racial” or something similar is offered.
Anyway I hope that we, as a society, eventually can move past the stereotypes that would cause someone of colour to want to mark “white” on any form.
July 25, 2007 at 7:54 pm
Hey Libyan,
I know about your kind, who’d have an Arabic name, be from North Africa, insist they’re not Arabs and in extreme cases that they’re not Muslims.
I think you haven’t read the hadith, you ignoramus, that loving Arabs is part of a Muslim’s faith. Be sure that you are on the borders of jahiliyyah with your blind hatred for everything Arab. Don’t dare talk about the religion they brought to your ancestors..if that’s how you’ll talk about them all the time! Go lick a Christian or Jewish shoe, become one of them, convert to one of those inferior religions, because it brings a bad name to Islam and Muslims to count you as one of us!!!
What have the Arabs done to you, you scumbag???? You claimed once before that they ‘raped our blond girls’, I wonder when was that, fool!!! And what’s up with this ‘blond’ thing??? You really think that all you Berbers are blond because some of you exhibit those traits here or there, so now you’re all, what, descended from the Germanic ancient tribes??? :) What a racist!!!! Stupid, stupid racist!!!! What about the negroe-like Berbers of Mali and Niger, the Touareg, huh??? Will you defend those? What about all those Yemeni-like Berbers I saw all the time in Morocco??? Will you defend them???
Don’t be so sure about the origin of Berbers, you ignoramus. We’re all descended from one of Noah’s 3 sons like the Quran said. And stop those lies about Arabs or Islamists raping your villages; the Muslim conquerers of North Africa were “history’s most merciful conquerers” according to neutral non-Muslim historians!!! And hey, Ibn Khaldun, whatever he said about the origin of Berbers, he’s not the only authority on the subject!! I have an entire book where Arab historians try to trace back the origin of Berbers to the Arabian peninsula.
At any rate, there will never be an independent Tmazighia or whatever you call that :) The age of nation-states in the Arab world is coming to an end, and the emergence of the Caliphate is fast approaching. No more jahiliyyah stupidity like yours will be allowed then, and if your likes will exist among the ranks of Muslims then, attempt to spread discord and fitnah, then the punishment of Allah on them will be applied, you germ. This nationalistic type of thinking brought to us by the brainless Europeans will be washed away from our lands, along with all those who carry it.
Choke to death from vexing, you’ll never see an independent Tmazighia EVER, because like an independent Kurdistan, it cannot happen without Western support, and that we’ll never allow. You sit home, speak your language at home or in schools, you’re welcome to have signs in the roads in it, but not in that script that looks like the language of outer space aliens; write it in the Arabic script, and SHUT THE HELL UP. No further dividing of North Africa will be allowed.
Many Berbers aren’t proud of their language, the way it sounds and the way it’s written. They’d rather speak Lebanese or Palestinian or Syrian Arabic instead, they imitate it all the time and even call it “the Romantic dialects” because of their softness compared to all other Arabic ones, let alone the Berber ones. Some Berbers themselves claim they are originally from Palestine!! Now I didn’t force anybody to say that, I was surprised myself.
Now, like I said, die from vexing, you ugly stupid ingrateful racist. No body asked you to bow down to most of today’s Arabs who are as corrupt and stupid as you are. Just show respect to those who brought Islam to your people (and your people are sadi to have renounced it FORTY times) and put your feet in your mouth. Nationalist Arabs or Berbers are the same sh!t. I’m only talking history, history won’t change the present or harm the past.
July 25, 2007 at 8:52 pm
Umar you’re gonnna have to delete some of these posts man, wow.
July 25, 2007 at 8:57 pm
Hussam, I think you need to relax a bit or something.
“You sit home, speak your language at home or in schools, you’re welcome to have signs in the roads in it, but not in that script that looks like the language of outer space aliens; write it in the Arabic script, and SHUT THE HELL UP”
And this statement was just really ridiculous and I’m kind of wondering if you’re actually being serious. Because you don’t like the way a language looks they should write it in yours?!. I happen to think Arabic looks not so very pretty. Maybe you should start writing Arabic which “looks like the language of outer space aliens” in Latin script. I would prefer it.
“The age of nation-states in the Arab world is coming to an end, and the emergence of the Caliphate is fast approaching”
I find this quite hard to believe considering the state of basically all muslim government in the world. And since nationalism and nationstates are such a bad thing than why are people so upset that the Palestinians land was taken from them? Why would muslims want the Palestinians to have a state/country of their own? This is clearly nationalism and the building (rebuilding technically) of nation states. As you stated, this is a bad thing and its coming to an end anyhow so why bother resolving the Israel/Pal issue.
And this is kind of irrelevant to the post at hand but Hussam mentioned that loving Arabs is part of a muslim’s faith. Is that actually true? I of course get that you should love people regardless of race/ethnicity as part of your faith but how and why have arabs been singled out for extra affection when really the only one who’s done anything to deserve being loved as part of your faith would be Muhamad
About the actual post I like Sameer’s little analysis. Primarily because its based on fact rather than gross generalizations
July 25, 2007 at 10:01 pm
from isalmfortoday.com:
It is increasingly common to see Muslims in the United States–women and men–leave Islam in growing numbers because of the treatment of women. They see Muslims as offering no solutions to these problems and they see Muslims denying that these problems exist, and after awhile it simply becomes unbearable. As Muslims it our duty to fight against every form of oppression, whatever form it takes, by whatever means we can, and we cannot fight oppression if we do not acknowledge that it exists.
This address by Samer Hathout was delivered at a workshop organized by the Muslim Women’s League And Karamah: Muslim Women Lawyers for Human Rights at the NGO Forum, United Nations Fourth World Conference on Women Huairou, China, September 7, 1995
Wonder if things have changed. Mosques would make good dance halls as well as skating rinks.
July 25, 2007 at 11:16 pm
Hussam
Loving Arabs is part of a Muslim’s faith? Can you give proof of that assertion?
I do NOT hate Arabs nor am I saying that hating them is something good, but you are saying that we are REQUIRED to love Arabs?? On what basis?
What if I said that love of whites is part of our faith?
Are you one of those who say that the Arabs are superior?
July 25, 2007 at 11:39 pm
Interesting post, but I think Europe is far from becoming Muslim. Although, the Muslim minorities are increasing in European cities, the power structure and institutions are still, by far pre-dominantly Anglo-elites.
Even if you look at the civil rights movements in America and the inroads that African-Americans have made, coupled with the emergence and acceleration of the Hispanic population, which most estimate has exceeded African-Americans, the question is what changed has this introduced to any of the branches of government or the real power structure, which are CEOs of Corporations. In fact, what we see are the Anglo-elite are acting in a defensive manner with the recent Supreme Court decision basically dismantling Brown vs The Board of Ed and or the hottest political topic outside of Iraq, which is immigration.
Articles like these are merely warning to the Anglo-Elites to tighten their ranks.
However, they should be scared. The average Anglo look around the world and see Muslims in the Middle East, North Africa, West Africa, East Africa, Southeast Asia, Iran, Afghanistan Indonesia, huge Muslim minorities in southern China, the Balkans, Chechnya, the so-called “sick man of Europe Turkey (who they don’t want to join the EU, because of the fear of more Muslims flooding Europe), the Stans, and the rapidly increasing Muslim minorities in every western city. The birth-rate and the conversations of the Muslims and the declining Anglo population, and the irrelevancy of Christianity in Europe, it does look rather bleak. However, animals are most dangerous when they are cornered, and I think they rather destroy the Muslims and the world rather than to concede power. After all Germany was the most dangerous country in World War II, however the A-bomb was dropped on civilians in Japan, even though the war would have been won without dropping it
July 25, 2007 at 11:52 pm
Inshallah, please give this alleged hadeeth that “loving Arabs is part of the deen?” There is nothing in Islam that I have EVER heard that encourged “loving” Arabs for the sake of them being Arab. We are encourged to learn the Classical Arabic language to master the understanding of the Book of Allah (SWA), but loving Arabs?? Please present evidence of this.
July 25, 2007 at 11:58 pm
Sad that very little value was added after my post
July 26, 2007 at 12:42 am
Umar, I definitely do not see a Muslim Europe, for reasons that many (especially Sameer) have spelled out in detail– the demographics just aren’t there, period. I do see a different, more modest development, in no way a Muslim “takeover” by any stretch but something potentially heartening in regard to our reconciliation with the West– namely, the coalescing of an advanced, wealthy, and socially prestigious “Western Muslim foundation” in England.
We won’t be the majority there, but England is the one place where we’ve truly become a flourishing, prestigious minority, and *as Muslims* who permanently retain our identity yet are able to dwell in relative harmony with the West.
This isn’t due to lack of hostility in general, as we all know the BNP has its thugs out throughout London and other English cities (even though they’re weak, dumb and generally despised). And not because things are so peachy– many English cities have just filthy streets, overcrowding and questionable public services in my experience.
Rather, the unique flourishing of the Muslim Ummah in England, is largely because the Muslim community in England is better organized, better funded and far more productive than in other Western countries, not to mention much more politically effective.
Another important factor, interestingly as I’ve found in nearly a dozen trips to Europe recently, is that Muslims on the Continent are leaving France, Germany, Belgium, the Netherlands, Sweden, Italy and other Continental EU countries to settle in England. All of these are poor and often terrible places to be a Muslim– in fact, French and German Muslims in particular are rapidly losing their very Muslim identity and forgetting their heritage, which is being retained quite well in England.
Germany is a nice country overall and most Turks and other Muslims I’ve met speak in praising, respectful terms about the country– clean, modern, efficient and to my surprise, in the main very friendly to Turks and to other non-native born groups. It’s just an awful place to be a Muslim in particular. It’s hard to explain exactly why, it’s certainly not hostility (the German people are kind and generous by and large)– it’s just that, the social, cultural and political fabric in Germany is very non-conducive to being a Muslim. Today at least, it’s not a place that lends itself to devout worship of any kind, and socially and culturally in Germany, you just don’t have the kinds of support networks that we often take for granted elsewhere, which make religious observation possible.
In contrast to England, where Muslim community life is vigorous and energetic, and where there’s also a significant native-born (Black Caribbean) segment of the Muslim population, I found that Turks and other young Muslims in Germany seemed lost, disconnected and listless, more so with every single trip there. The vast majority of the younger Turks in Germany I met have stopped attending mosque, no longer observe halal, don’t even participate in Friday prayers anymore– you’d weep if you knew how awful the attrition rate is in Germany. Interestingly, I met a number of Christian Turks there who were experiencing a cultural efflorescence, but the outlook for Islam there is dismal to say the very least.
Thus the movement of many, many German Turks to England (or to Canada or Australia), where they tend to thrive and preserve our heritage better.
This also goes, especially, for the young Muslims in France and the Netherlands.
Unlike Germany– which is generally a pleasant place, even if it’s a terrible country to be a Muslim in– France, Belgium and the Netherlands I really did not find pleasant at all, the French people and leaders are outright hostile toward the Muslim people there. Sarkozy is perhaps the most anti-Muslim political figure this side of the Atlantic. Muslim women in France cannot wear the hijab, while fundamental Muslim dietary and holiday practices are treated with scorn, eroding our very sense of self and our community connections. And the French government itself is aggressively secular– religion in general is derided there. Similar and at times even worse in the Netherlands, and in Belgium.
The result unsurprisingly, is that the Muslims who remain in France, Belgium and the Netherlands are losing their identity, just as they are in Germany though for different reasons. The most careful census, done 3 years ago, shows about 2.5-3 million French Muslims (millions of the Arabs there are Christian), with those numbers rapidly dwindling each year as young Algerians and Tunisians lose connections to their heritage.
And it’s only becoming worse with the recent change in government in France. Muslims in Italy, Portugal, Austria, Denmark, Sweden and Spain, have similar problems– whether due to outright hostility (as in France, Belgium and the Netherlands) or a social fabric that is terrible for Muslim community life (as in Germany), Muslims in these Continental countries are losing their identity.
This is in contrast to England, where the Muslim Ummah is flourishing as we haven’t done since many centuries ago in the West.
Thus, Muslims in Germany, France, the Netherlands, Sweden, Italy, Portugal, Austria, Switzerland and Spain are leaving these countries for good, and emigrating and settling in England, or else in Canada and Australia. Therefore England, as well as Canada and Australia to a lesser extent, is becoming the heartland of a Western Muslim identity.
July 26, 2007 at 1:09 am
bikhair, I see your points but I’m with Abu Sinan on the Hispanic/Latino immigration effect on the USA.
In my experience living many years in California, Arizona, Texas and otherwise, Latinos definitely do *not* consider themselves White (nor do Whites with e.g. Irish, English or German ancestry see them as White), and they aren’t regarded as White on census forms, on medical records or otherwise. (For that matter, the White racist groups in the USA deride Latinos as non-Whites.)
Genetically/ethnically, Latinos are predominantly of native American blood, specifically Mesoamerican– Maya, Aztec, Mixtec, Zapotec, Inca and other groups. There was some intermarriage with the Spaniards but not all that much– there actually have been surveys (looking at things like mitochondrial DNA), and mestizo Latinos are overwhelmingly of Mesoamerican descent, not Spaniard.
Still millions of other Latinos in the USA are pure-blooded indigenous native Americans– remember, the Latinos in the USA demographically are *not* the same as those in Latin America in general, they come predominantly from northwestern Mexico and other highly native American regions of Guatemala, Honduras, Nicaragua and Colombia.
That’s why physically, Latinos in the USA tend to be very dark-skinned (”Browns”), with dark eyes and dark hair, and facial features, bone structure and other characteristics consistent with the Mesoamerican Indians, not with Europeans. They’re also listed as being separate from Whites for medical, affirmative action, scholarship, university admission and job application purposes.
As you probably know, Latinos/Hispanics are given the same accord as “underrepresented minorities” as are Blacks, and constitute a similarly separate ethnic and racial group.
Although they speak Spanish, not just ethnically and racially but also culturally and historically, Latinos tend to trace their traditions to the native Mesoamerican peoples of the American continent. Their Spanish is inflected with native American cultural elements, and while Spanish unites them (including as a very closely related second language for Portuguese-speaking Brazilians), it’s a vehicle for them as a separate people.
Again, this is why Latinos in the USA are at the heart of such intense ethnic conflict and frequent strife, with American Whites fearful of becoming a racial minority while the (racially distinct) Blacks and Latinos, which indeed they are becoming. In fact, in states such as California, New Mexico and Texas, and very soon in Florida and Arizona as well, Whites *are* the minority and Latinos will soon be the majority group. This hasn’t yet manifested itself politically but will within 10 years– that’s when millions more Latinos reach voting age.
July 26, 2007 at 1:28 am
FROM THE BBC:
Many Muslims, fed up with what they see as Islamophobia, are upping sticks and heading for the Middle East.
At Nuzhat al-Sibassi’s family home in south London, the contents are being packed away in boxes, ready to be shipped to the United Arab Emirates.
Mrs al-Sibassi was born in Britain to Pakistani parents, raised and educated here. She’s worked as a senior hospital manager in the NHS, but is now moving with her family to the United Arab Emirates.
You feel you are having to constantly prove that you’re not what other people think you are - you always have to be on your guard
Nuzhat al-Sibassi
“Living here is not how it was. The politics and the environment has changed and people’s perception of Muslims has changed dramatically. A number of incidents in UK over past 3-4 years have marred life for decent Muslims living here.”
Mrs al-Sibassi is just one of a growing number of middle class Muslims who are leaving because they no longer feel comfortable living in the country of their birth.
so there
July 26, 2007 at 1:29 am
Also as Abu Sinan points out, while the Mesoamerican/mestizo element of American Latino culture is predominant (with these cultural traditions showing through even in Catholic church ceremonies), there’s also an African element in the mix that’s quite significant. Mexico had millions of Africans brought in during the 1500’s through 1700’s (Spain actually abolished slavery before England and the USA did), as did other Latino countries, and Mexico and other Latin American countries have been among the few to have their African populations almost entirely absorbed within the population in general. Even the relatively tiny “Spaniard” fraction of (USA Latino) blood has a lot of African in it, considering the Moorish conquests, along with of course Celto-Roman-Iberian and Visigothic elements.
So once again, Latinos in the USA are *not* White– by blood and ethnic background they are predominantly indigenous Mesoamerican and African, and culturally they are quite distinct from the European tradition, also predominantly of Mesoamerican and African background. This is the reason that Whites in the United States are so fearful about their demographic status and their looming status as a minority in the USA by 2025– Latino immigration, in particular, is swamping them out as the dominant group in the United States, especially in the Southwestern states and in Florida.
July 26, 2007 at 1:34 am
Sheikh-ul-Islam, Ibn Taymiyyah (ra) was of the opinion that Arabs ARE SUPERIOR to Non-Arabs and he claimed that this was the view that was held by the MAJORITY of the scholars.
He wrote: “And the MAJORITY of scholars are of the opinion that the Arab species (race) is better (Afdal) than the Non-Arab (species) just as the nation of Quraish is better (Afdal) than the Non-Quraishite nations and (just as) the nation of Bani Haashim is better (Afdal) than the Non-Bani Haashim (nations).” Majmoo Al-Fataawa 19/29
He also wrote: “This was the position of Imam Ahmed (ra) and the MAJORITY of Ahlul Ilm. Iqtidaa As-Siraatil-Mustaqeem 2/421
Also, refer to what he said in Majmoo Fataawa 27/472.
This becomes an issue of fiqh:
For example:
“If two people have memorized the same amount of the Quran and their knowledge of the Sunnah is the same and both of them made the Hijrah at the same time, which of the two should lead the prayer? Is it the Arab person or the Ajamee?”
“Can the Wali of a girl refuse an Ajamee man’s proposal for marriage on the grounds he’s an Ajamee?”
“Is the Khilaafah of the Muslim nation exclusively for the Arabs of Quraish or can Non-Arabs also take up this responsibility of being the Khalifah or Waali of the Muslims?”
All of these questions were posed to the Ulemah of the past and they answered them in the books of sociology like Ibn Khaldun’s (ra) in his book “Al-Muqaddamah” and in the books of Fiqh.
Many scholars of the Salaf used to see the issue of the superiority of the Arabs over non-Arabs as being an issue of AQEEDAH and some of them even considered it as being from the FUNDAMENTALS of the Sunnah!
Sheikh-ul-Islam, Ibn Taymiyyah (ra) wrote:
“Verily, what Ahlul Sunnah is upon: Is the BELIEF (Itiqaad) that the Arab race is better (Afdal) then the Non-Arab race. Whether (the Non-Arabs) are Hebrews, Aramaic, Romans, Persians and other than them”. Iqtidaa As-Siraatil-Mustaqeem 2/419
Abu Muhammad, Harb ibn Ismail ibn Khalaf Al-Kirmaany (died 280 - ra) who was one of the students and companions of Imaam Ahmed (ra) also mentioned this point when he wrote about the descriptions and BELIEFS of the PEOPLE OF THE SUNNAH.
He began his treatise by saying:
“This is the Madhab of the Imams of Ilm and the Ashaab-ul-Athar and (the people of) Ahlus Sunnah who are the ones who are followed (and they) are well known by these (issues).
And I met those who I met from the Ulemah of Iraq and the Hijaz and As-Sham and other than them and they were upon these (issues).
Whoever goes against anything from these issues or he criticizes any of them or disparages anyone who says them, then he is a Mubtadi� and he’s outside of the Jamaat and outside of the Manhaj of the Sunnah and the Sabeel of the Haqq!
And this was the madhab of AHMED, ISHAQ IBN IBRAHIM IBN MAKHLAD (RAAHUWIYAH), and ABDULLAH IBN AZ-ZUBAIR AL-HUMAYDEE and SAEED IBN MANSUR and other than them from those who I sat with and took knowledge from.
They used to say Emaan (faith) consists of (making) statements, (doing) actions and (having) the Niyyah
Imam Harb ibn Ismail (ra) then proceeded to mention many of the well known issues of the Aqeedah of Ahlul-Hadith and then he said:
“And we know the rights of the Arabs and (we know) their VIRTUE and their PRECEDENCE (in the Deen) and we love them because of the Hadith of the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him): Loving the Arabs is from Emaan and hating them is hypocrisy”.
And we do not say as the Shuoobiyah (those who hate the Arabs) and (as) the lowly ones from the ex-slaves (say) who do not love the Arabs and they don’t recognize their virtues, for verily their statement is a BIDAH and (it’s) in contradiction.
It should be noted that the Hadith that was used by Imam Harb ibn Ismail ibn Khalaf Al-Kirmaany (ra): “Loving the Arabs is from Emaan and hating them is hypocrisy” is not an authentic Hadith! Even though it’s a famous and widely used Hadith, it should not be used to prove a point in Aqeedah!
To read the beneficial treatise of Imam Harb ibn Ismail ibn Khalaf Al-Kirmaany (ra) you can go to these books:
- Tabaqaat-ul-Hanaabilah - Imam Abu Yalaa (ra) 1/145
- Al-Maqsad-ul-Arshad Fee Dhikr Ashaab-ul-Imam Ahmed Imam Ibn Muflih (ra) 1/354
- Iqtidaa As-Siraatil-Mustaqeem - Sheikh-ul-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah (ra) 1/145
This treatise and SUNNAH of Imam Harb ibn Ismail Al-Kirmaany (ra) has also been described as being the actual words of Imam Ahmed (ra) as well.
In the biography of Imam Abul-Abbass, Ahmed ibn Jafar ibn Yaqub ibn Abdullah Al-Faarisee Al-Astakhrey (ra) it is reported that he (i.e. Imama Al-Astakhrey) said:
“Imam Ahmed told me and then Imam Al-Astakhrey (ra) proceeded to narrate the words of Imam Ahmed (ra) and they were almost identical to the words that were mentioned in the treatise of Imam Harb ibn Ismail Al-Kirmaany (ra).
See the biography of Imam Al-Astakhrey (ra) in the book ‘Tabaqaat-ul-Hanaabilah’ by Imam Abu Yalaa (ra) 1/30
In addition to what has been mentioned, the Imam of the Sunnah and its people - during his time - Imam Abu Muhammad Al-Barbahaaree (died 329 - ra) also mentioned this issue in his famous and beneficial book Sharh-us-Sunnah:
He said: And (come to) know the superiority of Bani Haashim due to their (blood) relations to the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) and (come to) know the superiority of Quraish and THE ARABS and (the superiority of) all of their sub-tribes. Therefore, know their position and the rights that they have in Islam”. Refer to point #96
The Imaam and Aalim Ar-Rabbaanee Ibn Abee Asim (died 287 ra) also brought this point forward in his famous book Kitaab-us-Sunnah.
Similar to the other Aqeedah books that were called Kitaab-us-Sunnah, Imam Ibn Abee Asim’s (ra) book discusses with detailed proofs from the Quran and Sunnah what the correct Aqeedah is according to the Salaf of this Ummah (may Allah have mercy upon them and establish us on their way).
From pages 618 - 628 Imam Ibn Abee Asim (ra) brings a number of Ahaadith that prove the virtues and superiority of Quraish over Non-Quraishites. See his book with the Takhreej of Imaam Al-Albaani (ra).
Clearly, these Ahaadith were put in this book of AQEEDAH in order to establish and prove the topic of this subject. That it is from the AQEEDAH of the Salaf to hold to and BELIEVE that the Arabs are better than Non-Arabs!
Shiekh-ul-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah (ra) said:
“Know that the Ahaadith (that show) the superiority of Quraish and then the superiority of Bani Haashim are numerous and this is not the place (to gather all of them) but they also prove this (superiority of the Arab over Non-Arabs).
And this is due to the fact that the relationship of Quraish to the Arabs is just like the relationship of the Arabs to the rest of the people (i.e. Quraishites are superior to Non-Quraishites and the Arabs are superior to Non-Arabs). Verily Allah the Most High has designated the Arabs and their language with Ahkaam that are peculiar and unique.
And then He preferred Quraish over the rest of the Arabs in what He has given them of prophecy and other than that from the Khasaais (unique and peculiar qualities). Iqtidaa As-Siraat-il-Mustaqeem 2/431
Sheikh-ul-Islam, Ibn Taymiyyah (ra) also said:
“The superiority of the Arab race and then (the superiority of) Quraish and then (the superiority of) Bani Haashim, is not simply due to the fact the Prophet (peace be upon him) is from them even though this is (a point) of superiority but instead, they themselves are superior within themselves. Iqtidaa As-Siraatil-Mustaqeem 2/420
For a deeper and more comprehensive look at the many unique and peculiar qualities that Allah has bestowed upon the Arabs, look at what Sheikh-ul-Islam, Ibn Taymiyyah (ra) wrote in this regard in his book Al-Iqtidaa 2/447-451.
He scholastically detailed and described a number of these unique qualities of the Arabs, in a way that will help the Muslim who is balanced, fair and a seeker of the truth Insha Allah to develop a greater understanding and appreciation for who the Arabs really are as a nation!
He will also began to understand some of the Hikmah as to why Allah DIVINELY chose the Arabs, their language and their lands to serve as the bedrock and foundation of Islam.
After reading what Sheikh-ul-Islam, Ibn Taymiyyah (ra) wrote about them Insha Allah - you will hopefully develop a greater sense of appreciation for certain aspects of their culture and characteristics that caused them to become the vanguard of Islam
Also, see what Sheikh Bakr Abdullah Abu Zaid said about these unique and peculiar qualities of the Arabs in his beneficial book “Special Characteristics of the Arabian Peninsula” (Khasaais Jazeerat-il-Arab).
Specifically, take a look at the chapter entitled: “The special characteristics of the Prophet’s people and his kindred” (pg. 67 - 74)
There is another book that was written by a Hanbali scholar whose name was: Maree Al-Karmy Al-Hanbali (ra) and it’s called: “Masbook-ud-Dhahab Fee Fadl-il-Arab” and it’s a book that supports the idea and notion that Arabs are better than Non-Arabs.
July 26, 2007 at 1:45 am
Come on. A military hack like Ralph Peters? In the old days, a retired officer could get a little pocket change by pitching arms sales to the Pentagon. But Congress tightened that loophole. Steyn? That rabid judeofascist low life hasn’t written anything worth reading in his entire sad excuse of a life. With guys like these who needs feeble minded charlatans posing as “experts” on Islam, or anything else for that matter? Hakim and Tariq have got this one figured out.
PS - Eliza has lied again as her link is false. Tell me dear, are you parents siblings who met each other at the hometown buffet square dance floor?
July 26, 2007 at 2:51 am
SALAAM;
Opinions of the Salaf are exactly that, Opinions. Knowledge is what Allah and his Messenger has stated, everything other than that is merely conjecture, no matter how revered the sheikh or ulama is. Opinions differ from Sheikh to Sheikh, Madhab to Madhab. The revered Salafi Sheikh Fawzan has stated that Slavery is apart of Islam and spoke ill of the Sheikhs, who deny that. (Just uttering a fact that is well known). I’m not speaking ill of the Sheikh, the statement speaks for itself.
I’ve notice most, if not all the Salaf you name are of the Hanbali Madhab, and no matter how much Salafis today deny it, they follow 95% or more of the Hanbali Madhab. Again, not speaking ill, and not saying that anything is wrong with that, just cited to showed how limited your supposed evidence is.
Secondly, some of us Muslims speak of the Salaf as if they were one cohesive force that did not differ in anything and lived in perfect harmony, when in reality they themselves were of diverse opinions and understandings and I’m speaking specifically of the Sahaba, who spoke, listen, ate and drank with the Prophet (pbuh) as well from his family. We as Muslim, often ignore the fact that there was a civil war, in which Sahaba fought Sahaba, tabieen vs tabieen and even Ali fought the wife of the Prophet (pbuh). We tend to ignore these fact, because we wish not to speak ill of the Salaf, I respect that, however, we should study the breakdown in order to learn from it.
Thirdly, Allah (ta ala) measure people by Taqwa and actions, not by lineage or birth right, this perception mirrors what the Jews say about themselves, but we as Muslims call that absurd in that case (Allah (ta ala) also condemns this thinking of Bani Israel), then we Muslims turnaround and apply the same ignorance to ourselves. It’s not being a descendant of Ibrahim’s lineage that makes your special, its having the belief and following the actions of Ibrahim (if it was by lineage then the Jews would have a claim), did Ibrahim speak Arabic. When Allah raises a Prophet, he raises it from amongst the people. In this case, the Kaabah is in Arabia ( rebuilt by Ibrahim and Ishmael, again actions), Ibrahim made a Dua for Allah (ta ala) to send a messenger, purifying the people. Prophet Muhammad is an answer to that Dua, the people around the Kaabah speak Arabic, now you do the math.
Lastly, the fact that we as Muslims have inherited a mountain of knowledge, does not absolve us, from actually thinking for ourselves. We condemn the world from blindly following what they do and we do the same thing. Lets actually think about what Allah (ta ala) and his Messenger (pbuh) are conveying to us primarily, then take the diverse OPINIONS of the Salaf and Ulama as Nasiha. For when we meet Allah, he will not ask what Sheikh so and so said, but he will ask us of our beliefs and our action. AND ALLAH KNOWS BEST.
SALAAM
July 26, 2007 at 3:25 am
Umar, who inside of the United States actually views the so-called war in Iraq as a war. Please, we are still going to work, watching baseball, laughing at the comedies on television. It’s not taken serious because Iraq is not and was not a threat. They compare Saddam to Hitler that’s a joke; he lacked the monies, capability, technology, army. I mean there was not even an Iraqi navy, the inapt air force was knocked out during the first day of the first Gulf war.
Post like these agenda is to magnify the problem for the west to take it serious and make money. NOW NOT ONLY ARE THE MUSLIMS, IN THE MIDDLE EAST, AFRICA, AND ASIA, THEY ARE AMONGST US, WITH OUR EUROPEAN ALLIES, THEY’RE EVERYWHERE. THERE GONNA GET US.
They same way we Muslims tend to see a Jewish conspiracy under every rock, they portray the Islamic Invasion coming from everywhere. I mean you would think that Jails and Prison are all now Madrasah because of the jail house conversion.
Because Muslim countries look so pathetic and their armies exist mainly to keep their own populations in check, they have to paint an Islamic Boogey man. It like DrM stated but outside of these war-profiting individual, the Pentagon have to justify not only their outlandish budget in general but even more specifically to continue to have Congress readily approve their funding for the war. If I had a quarter for every time I heard from a member of Congress, if we fail in Iraq, it going to be a safe haven and base of operation for Al Qaedah to spread their ideology throughout the region. BOOGEY-MEN.
July 26, 2007 at 3:45 am
I provided names of sites, just root around there and you’ll find the info.
Some of the comments here look like they were written by space aliens or characters from Lord of the Rings, but that’s religion for you.
Some of the remarks about the peoples of the US are grim, as though no one had good sense or good will.
July 26, 2007 at 5:58 am
Hey Libyan,
I know about your kind, who’d have an Arabic name, be from North Africa, insist they’re not Arabs and in extreme cases that they’re not Muslims.
Actually I dont have a arabic name, my first name is the name which The Prophet from Beni israel Jesus(PBUH) called the Seal of the Prophets and my last name is derived from my Berber Kabylie(tribe). As far as Berber’s apostateing from the faith….. we leave that to Arab Individuals like Wafa Sultan, Noonie Darwish, and “The Former Plo Terrorist Walid Shabbet”.:P
I think you haven’t read the hadith, you ignoramus, that loving Arabs is part of a Muslim’s faith.
My Brother in Den al-Haq I would appreciate it if you refrained from using insults towards a fellow Muslim for this is prohibited in Al_Deen of Islam. Like The Salafi Brother said the hadith which you are speaking of that was used by Imam Harb ibn Ismail ibn Khalaf Al-Kirmaany: “Loving the Arabs is from Emaan and hating them is hypocrisy” is not an authentic Hadith! Even though it’s a famous and widely used Hadith, it should not be used to prove a point in Aqeedah. But loving your brother or sister in the Deen Of Islam is a part of our faith:P Be they a Arab from yemen, a Pashtun from Afganistan, a Slav from Bosnia, or a Imazighen from al-Magreb:P
Don’t dare talk about the religion they brought to your ancestors..if that’s how you’ll talk about them all the time!
I am sorry to burst your bubble my Ishmalite friend but the Deen Of Islam is not one which is owned by the Arab Peoples. This deen is for all the dwellers of the Universe. I suggest you crack open the Quran,and read it instead of using it as a wall decore.
Go lick a Christian or Jewish shoe, become one of them, convert to one of those inferior religions, because it brings a bad name to Islam and Muslims to count you as one of us!!!
Thank you for the offer, but I think i shall pass. As far as me and my people giving a bad name to Islam last time I turned on CNN it was not a Imazighen who was strapping his 6 yearold daughter with TNT, sending the oung school girl to kill Israeli women and children. as far as Jewish boot liking the Israelites have the Arab League for that.:P
What have the Arabs done to you, you scumbag???? You claimed once before that they ‘raped our blond girls’, I wonder when was that, fool!
Its actually happened quite a few times my brother in Deen Al-Haq. Does 1049 ring a bell brother? For those of us who ignorant of hsitory I shall fresh the mind. Inshallah. In 1049 the Imazighen Governers of Tamazgha my Salafa(Rightouse Forebarers”s) abandoned the Shia religion for the Deen Of Al-Haq the Deen of Islam…… This rattled the boots of the Arab Terrorist’s occupying Tamazgha, so in that very year The Fatimad Caliphate sent a arab Confederation known as Banu Hilal into the homeland of My ancestor’ to punish us for converting to Sunni Islam. This tribe quickly defeated the Zirid’s, and deeply weakened my fellow Imazighen The Hammadids in Western algeria(Middle and western Tamazgha) who also rejected the deviant Ishamli Shite Heresy of your Arab Ancestor’s. After this your Ancestor the Caliphate of The Fatimads sent in another band of Arab Shia Terrorist’s The Beni Sulaym… The Beni Sulaym like most Semites despise all things green and like their Jewish Sister Kahina who had invaded Tamazgha a few centuries before following The Christian Saking of Israel… they indulged in their time honoured Scourage the Earth fetish. The Banu Sulaym were composed of four main groups—the Banu Hebib, the ‘Awf, the Debbab, and the Zegb. The Hebib settled in Cyrenaica, while the others went into Tripolitania.
Thank Allah Almighty for he sent a Mighty KURDISH warrior his majesty liberated us from the arabofacist Cult of shism.
And what’s up with this ‘blond’ thing??? You really think that all you Berbers are blond because some of you exhibit those traits here or there, so now you’re all, what, descended from the Germanic ancient tribes???
What about the negroe-like Berbers of Mali and Niger, the Touareg, huh??? Will you defend those? What about all those Yemeni-like Berbers I saw all the time in Morocco??? Will you defend them???
1. In response to the Berber’s being of Germanic decent their is no evidance to prove such a assertion. While it is true The Germanic Vandal’s of The Christian Faith finished the days of Christian Terror in tamazgha and assimilated with in the local population, this does not explain the “Germanic Feature’s” which the ancient Egyptian’s,Greeks and Roman’s depicted thousands of years earlier. The Berber’s are a Ibero-maurussians peoples.
As far as Morroco, their is no doubt that many of the folks resemble the Yemites… because they MIGRATED HERE.lol. Not 1300 years ago.lol. as far as the “Negroid” Berber’s, the Tuaraq are a mixture between the Amazigh and our fellow African brother’s whom you call “negroid” in the south. Our culture mingled with theirs in Sub-Saharean Africa. When I speak of Amazigh I am speaking of Jabel Nafouusa, Zuwara, Chawi, High and Middle Atlas, Kabylie, Aures. ect..
Don’t be so sure about the origin of Berbers, you ignoramus. We’re all descended from one of Noah’s 3 sons like the Quran said.
Who said I denied we come from the three sons of Noah, eh? I am a proud son of ham, son of Phut. And never once did I state otherwise. Just as you are a proud son of Sham, son of Ishmael? eh?
And stop those lies about Arabs or Islamists raping your villages; the Muslim conquerers of North Africa were “history’s most merciful conquerers” according to neutral non-Muslim historians!
I dont recall any Islamist’s in 640C.E.lol. So I am geussing you are conflicting my comments of The Government oppression of the Kabylie in the 90’s.
And hey, Ibn Khaldun, whatever he said about the origin of Berbers, he’s not the only authority on the subject!!
True but he is my favorite. I do belive he hit your peoples discription on the head in The Muqaddimah:
Arabs dominate only of the plains, because they are, by their savage nature, people of pillage and corruption. They pillage everything that they can take without fighting or taking risks, then flee to their refuge in the wilderness, and do not stand and do battle unless in self-defense. So when they encounter any difficulty or obstacle, they leave it alone and look for easier prey. And tribes well-fortified against them on the slopes of the hills escape their corruption and destruction, because they prefer not to climb hills, nor expend effort, nor take risks.
At any rate, there will never be an independent Tmazighia or whatever you call that The age of nation-states in the Arab world is coming to an end, and the emergence of the Caliphate is fast approaching.
Inshallah ya Rab. One can only pray for a Caliphate to unite the Ummah. as far as Tamazgha…. the word appeared first 20 century as a response to Arabofacism(Nasserism) it was either Mouloud Mammeri or Kateb Yacine. I have never stated my opposition to one Islamic state uniteing all 52-56 Muslim nation States.
This nationalistic type of thinking brought to us by the brainless Europeans will be washed away from our lands, along with all those who carry it.
Well my friend you ushered in the conversation of Nationalism when you stated that it was the colonialists who where trying to divide the Arab Peoples….. Now that you have lost the battle, and your theroy of Berber’s being arabs has been washed away, you turn to Islam.lol. You Arabs never suprise me. Inshallah Pakistan will have a new government and you will be eating chcken Curry and speaking urdu in Mecca soon.:P
Either that of you shall speak farsi and make Hajj at Karbala, when their you shall get on your hands and knees and kiss the ring of the Grand Ayatollah.lol.
Pakistan is a Nuclear State, Iran Soon to be a Nuclear state, Turkey has awaken from the Slumber what with the Ak Party(May Allah bless and keep these “Brainless Europeans”) it looks like Daddy has awaken and he is coming back to take Ottaman lands? Was it not these Barin Less European’s for example Umar Pasha from Serbia who was giving you a falga not a century ago in Iraq, or The mindless European from Greece who was kicking your Wahhabi asses in Arabia for questioning the Authority of the Calipha? Was it not the mindless European from albania Ibrahiam Pasha who did more for Egypt then any ruler in its history? The list can go on and on about the contributions these mindless Europeans have given to the muslim Ummah. Was it not these Mindless Europeans who traveled to the Moon while you sat here on Planet Earth trying to comprohend the mindless European Invention of the automobile? Was it not the mindless European’s who created the invention known as the computer the very same invention you are using now?
Choke to death from vexing, you’ll never see an independent Tmazighia EVER, because like an independent Kurdistan, it cannot happen without Western support, and that we’ll never allow.
What are you going to do throw hummus at me? Torture me with nancy Ajram video’s? You are the minority in the Magreb not just genetically but Socially… the Berber’s who mkae up 60% in Morroco, and 1/3 of Algeria’s population will not go into the hole in the ground that easy. It seems like you live in the Epic Eurabian fantasy like your Jewish Brother Danial Pipes.:)
You sit home, speak your language at home or in schools, you’re welcome to have signs in the roads in it, but not in that script that looks like the language of outer space aliens; write it in the Arabic script, and SHUT THE HELL UP. No further dividing of North Africa will be allowed.
Script that looks like that of Space Alien’s? What a sophisticated and intelectual assertion. And I am the Racist? Weak Comeback dude. :P
July 26, 2007 at 6:40 am
“Root around”? For what, Eliza, a comment by a Muslim-hating sewer rat like you? You’d be out of your depth in a parking lot puddle.
Give my best to Marvin the martian.
July 26, 2007 at 8:29 am
ya Berber hater,
No, don’t think that your “comeback” declares your victory! He laughs more who laughs last.
Nationalists scumbags like you deserve, indeed, the ruthlessness of fellow National scumbags from among the Arabs. I say you both finish off each other, because even though you throw in some Islamic terminology here or there, that still didn’t make you any better than the Jahili Nationalist Arabs. You are not making any difference between pious Arabs and impious, corrupt Arabs. You are a blind racist, and you are really taking pride in the nothingness your Berber heritage offers (without Islam, the Islam which was brough to you by the Arabs; definitely not the Arabs you hate so much, and you are so arrogant to admit the difference, don’t want to remember the favour of my ancestors on your people and the whole world (and that is not to say that I have done you any favour, for I was born much much later and participated in nothing over the course of history, of course, and I say again: no one asked you to seek barakah from my shoe, or kiss my Arab hand, or bow down to me or give me your chair when I enter a majlis).
And never should a kid like you dare to think that he can use something I say against me, or think he can win a debate with me. Wait for the next one, and you’ll be shown the small size of your incapable brain, you racist bigot.
You’d definitely make Tariq ibn Ziyad proud…NOT.
July 26, 2007 at 8:36 am
Eliza, you h*e,
Lord of the Rings are the hallusinations of idiots from your culture, who have nothing to talk about beside sex, music, and fantastical heroes (because your own history is devoid of any heroes and heroes, contrary to ours, so you’d create Superman, Batman, Spiderman, Elektra, because you are, indeed, a “brainless” culture that took away from humanity more than it offered). Don’t you dare liken our talks to the hallusinations of your culture. Go talk about strippers, Paris Hilton in prison, Britney Spears in Rehab, or go count your daily crimes and cases of incest and pedophilia and homosexual marriages instead. That’s what you, Westerners, are good in. And don’t forget to buy a scratch ticket on your way out! Hahahahahaha.
I step and spit on you and your hollow culture.
July 26, 2007 at 9:24 am
Mr.Hariri, your words are harsh and judgemental, but they also have the ring of truth to them.
July 26, 2007 at 9:33 am
OK, let me review here:
- Non-Arabs are INFERIOR to Arabs and I suppose this is to mean that their culture is superior as well and that the rest of us are to become flunkies for them. We are supposed to speak English in a broken Arab accent and look down upon ourselves
- The Arabs are to be an upper ruling class while the rest of us are a servant class of “mawalis” as it was in medieval times
What happened to the equality of men?
What happened to Islam being for everyone?
July 26, 2007 at 9:50 am
Instead of hadith tossing and indulging in race- baiting, our time might be better spent re reading the Prophet saws last sermon and trying to implement it in our lives.
This thread is a perfect example of why Muslims aren’t taking over anything anytime soon.
July 26, 2007 at 10:21 am
Safiya,
The Muslims were taking over when they held these opinions
Remember that ibn Taymiyyah said that the MAJORITY of scholars were of the opinion that the Arab race is better than all Non-Arab races just as the nation of Quraish is better than the Non-Quraishite nations and (just as) the nation of Bani Haashim is better (Afdal) than the Non-Bani Haashim (nations).
This is a significant issue and many MODERN scholars hold this opinion
If the scholars of the past spent time in writing about the issue of the superiority of the Arabs over the Non-Arabs, then surely that in itself is a proof of its importance and the relevance of us dealing with it today!
THE ADILLAH OF THE JAMHOOR (MAJORITY):
PROOF # ONE:
Zaynab bint Jahsh (ra) said that the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) entered upon her and he was disturbed and he said:
["There is no God worthy of worship but Allah! Woe unto THE ARABS from the evil that has come close".] Bukhari (#7135) and Muslim (#7164.
Umm Shuraik (ra) said she heard the Prophet (peace be upon him) say:
["The people will run from Ad-Dajjaal by fleeing to the mountains". So she said: "Yaa Rasoolilah! Were will THE ARABS be at time"? He said, "They will be few (in numbers)".] Muslim (#7319)
The scholars of Islam understood these two Hadith and others similar to them as showing the virtues of the Arabs over Non-Arabs because the Prophet (peace be upon him) mentioned THE ARABS - specifically - in describing the whole Muslim Ummah!
Imam At-tirmidhi (ra) collected the first Hadith (#4187) and he entitled the chapter in which the Hadith is to be found as: THE SUPERIORITY OF THE ARABS
Also refer to the statements and explanations of these scholars and their books:
Tuhfat-ul-Ahwadhy Al-Mubaarakfoori (ra) Hadith #4187
Fath-ul-Baari Ibn Hajr (ra) 13/115
Fayd-ul-Qadeer An-Manaawee (ra) 6/476
Bahjat-un-Naadhireen (Riyaad-us-Saaliheen) Saleem Al-Hilaaly (ha) 1/280
PROOF #TWO:
Waathilah ibn Al-Asqa (ra) reported that he heard the Prophet (peace be upon him) say:
[Verily Allah CHOOSE Kinaanah from the children of Ismail, and He CHOOSE Quraish from Kinaanah, and He CHOOSE Bani Haashim from Quraish and He CHOOSE me from Bani Haashim.] Muslim (#2276)
Sheikh-ul-Islam, Ibn Taymiyyah said:
This (Hadith) necessitates that Ismail (Alayhi Salaam) and his descendants are the best ones from the children of Ibrahim (Alayhi Salaam) and it also necessitates that they are better than the children of Ishaq (Alayhi Salaam).
And what is well known is that the children of Ishaq who are Bani Israail - are the BEST NON-ARABS because of what they (have been given) of prophecy and the Book- Al-Iqitdaa 1/430
One of Ibn Taymiyyah’s (ra) best and most prolific students - Ibn Katheer (ra) said in his Tafseer-ul-Adheem concerning this point:
They (Bani Israel) were the noblest of the people during their time from (amongst) the Greeks the Coptics and all the rest of the people. 2/35
As it relates to this Hadith serving as a proof that shows the superiority of the Arabs over the Non-Arabs, Sheikh-ul-Islam (ra) is referring to what Allah has mentioned in many Ayats of the Quran concerning the superiority that was given to Bani Israel over the rest of mankind (during that time).
Allah said:
[And (remember) when Musa said to his people: Oh my people! Remember the favour of Allah upon you when He made Prophets among you (and He) made you kings and gave you what He had not given to any other among the Aalameen.] 6/20
Allah bestowed favours upon Bani Israel the likes of which the world had never seen prior to that time.
He split the sea for them and he caused the clouds to shade them from the sun. He also caused Manna and Salwa to rain upon them from the sky and He destroyed and annihilated their enemy who put them to unspeakable trials and tribulations!
Most importantly, He favoured them over the Aalameen by sending a large number of Prophets to them.
As the Prophet (peace be upon him) informed us, every time a Prophet from them died, another Prophet would come and take his place in guiding the affairs of Bani Israel. Bukhari (#4920)
In some cases, Allah blessed them with having sent them two to three Prophets who lived with them at the same time! Like in the case of Yaqub living during the time of his son Yusuf and Daud living side by side with his son Sulayman and Zakariyyah living during the same time of his son Yahya and his nephew Isa and his niece Maryum.
And finally, the case of Musa living during the time of his brother Haaroon and Yusha ibn Nun! (Salawaatu Allah Wa Salaamuhu Alayhim Jameean).
Therefore, the Qurun proves that Bani Israel who were Ajamees - were the BEST OF THE AALAMEEN - due to the favours Allah bestowed upon them and - according to Sheikh-ul-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah ra) this Hadith of Waathilah (ra) proves the Arabs are better than Non-Arabs because Allah has favoured the descendants of Ismail (Alayhi Salaam) over the descendants of Ishaq (Alayhi Salaam) and Allah knows best!
PROOF #THREE:
Ibn Umar (ra) reported the Prophet (peace be upon him) said:
[This affair will not cease to remain with Quraish as long as there are two people.] Bukhari (#3495) and Muslim (#1818)
Jubair ibn Matam (ra) said that he heard the Prophet (peace be upon him) say:
[The Quraishy (person) has (been given) the strength of two (Non-Quraishy people).]
This Hadith has been collected in the Hadith book of Imam ABU DAUD AT-TAYLASAALEE (#951) - not to be confused with the author of the famous Hadith book Sunan Abee Daud that was authored by Imam Abu Daud Sulaymaan AS-SAJISTAANY(ra) -.
Imam Abu Nuaym (ra) also recorded this Hadith in his book Hilyat-ul-Awliyaa when he wrote the biography of the Imam of the Dunyah Abu Abdillah, Muhammad ibn Idris As-Shaafiee (ra) who was a Quraishy man Masha Allah!
The Imam from the Taabieen, Muhammad ibn Shihaab Az-Zuhri (ra) was asked:
What is the meaning of the Hadith concerning the Quraishy man being given the strength of two people not from Quraish? He replied: They have been given a sharp intellect!
PROOF #FOUR:
The famous Hadith of Al-Irbaad ibn As-Saariyah (ra) in which the Prophet (peace be upon him) said:
["Verily the one who lives from amongst you will witness a lot of differing. Therefore, (you should) take my Sunnah and the Sunnah of the RIGHTLY GUIDED KHALIFAHS. Bite on them with your molars]. Ahmed 4/126
Sheikh-ul-Islam, Ibn Taymiyyah (ra) said:
Verily Umar (ra), when he used to distribute the Deewaan-ul-Ataa (salary register) he would give to the people according to their lineage. He began (by giving to those) who were closest in their lineage to the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him).
After he finished giving to the Arabs, he then began to distribute (the monies) to the Ajam (Non-Arabs)!
This was the way of the Deewaan during the time of (all of) the RIGHTLY GUIDED KHALIFAHS (as well as) all of the Khalifahs of Bani Umayyad and the Abbasiyyeen and then it was changed after that. Al-Iqtidaa 1/446
[For further discussion of this practice of Umar (ra) see what the Imam and the Hujjah, Abu 'Ubayd, Al-Qaasim ibn Salaam (ra) said in his beneficial book 'Kitaab-ul-Amwaal pg 235 -237.]
Further, during the time of the Ummayids, non-Arabs were not allowed to lead the prayers. They were not allowed to ride horses, marry into Arab families, or administer governmental or religious affairs. As a rule, non-Arabs were not allowed to perform funeral prayers for a deceased Arab.
Furthermore, the non-Arabs did not have the right to marry off their daughters without prior permission from an Arab.
Lastly, Al-Imam, Al-Haafiz, Ibn Rajab Al-Hanbali (ra) also referred to the issue of the Deewaan of Umar (ra) in his book Jaami Uloom Wal-Hikm 2/121-126.
Since Umar (ra) placed the Arabs ahead of the Non-Arabs in the distribution of the salaries and the companions allowed this to take place, this is a clear proof of the correctness of this position
If anyone has PROOF to refute this from the Quran and Sunnah then ahlan wa sahlan…otherwise be SILENT
July 26, 2007 at 11:17 am
Eh, I guess my Berber ‘brother’ would retrack now (but won’t do so in public out of pride) because he would have loved to be an Arab after all these proofs! Hahahaha :D
Jazaak Allah khair, my Salafi brother. I assure you (not that idiot) that I’m not racist or nationalist like that guy! Is it wrong to promote one of the theories about the Berbers being from Arabian origin? That guy took great offense as if I’m saying Berbers evolved from chimpanzees!!!! I mean, he could have POLITELY said: “no, brother, we belong to a different race, and here are my proofs..”, but he chose to degrade all Arabs because of the once-Shia Arabs ruling North Africa, the weak post-colonial Arab regimes, etc etc!!! What a stupid kid!!! I really cannot show respect to his likes!!! The fool is judging me by the bad deeds of others who happen to belong to my race!!! How fair is that??? Of all Arabs ever existing, I take pride in being related to those who conquered the known world in the dawn of Islam, and those who will re-conquer it again (and already started), who are now in Iraq, Afghanistan, Chechnya & Palestine. All us don’t matter to me. And all I can say is that I love the Mujahidin, but I’m not one of them.
Later.
July 26, 2007 at 11:19 am
typo:
“All ELSE don’t matter to me..”
July 26, 2007 at 12:37 pm
Islam appears to be an ancient arab thing. Take old arab name, wear old arab clothes, learn arabic, meditate on glorious days of old arab bandit gang. Discuss whom to kill and how, and the proper way to beat up women.
Live in the mode of many centuries past - yes, it’s Lord of the Rings all right.
July 26, 2007 at 1:35 pm
We are all equal in the eyes of God. The only thing that makes us distinct from each other is our piety. Anything else contradicts the words and will of Allah and is thus from Satan.
This talk of one group being superior to another is not Islamic.
July 26, 2007 at 2:12 pm
Another way it resembles the L of the R, besides the costumes, is the tribal warfare. The elves against the gnomes, the Hoo against the Ha. Keep it up boys! The world moves on.
July 26, 2007 at 2:45 pm
If anyone has PROOF to refute this from the Quran and Sunnah then ahlan wa sahlan…otherwise be SILENT
1. First off all might I add the word’s of Ibn Taymiyyah are of NO validity. Seeing as how the man was a criminal, who died in his cage in Damascus where he belonged.
2. The Prophet’s farewell speach is as clear as it gets. O People! Your God is one; your father is one; no preference of an Arab neither over non-Arab nor of a non-Arab over an Arab or red over black or black over red except for the most righteous. Verily the most honored of you is the most righteous.”
This position of the Speach is a reaffirmation of Quran 49:134, and 4:125.
As far as the Hadith which you mentioned, no off which state the Superiority of arab’s might I add, I can neither accept them nor reject them , until I see the chain of narrator’s. Bukari’s collection has many error’s which have been exposed in recent time. Maybe the “Inferior Weak-Minded European” whom your cult takes great honour in following Sheik Al-Albani missed those mistakes when he was going over his collection. but then again as you stated those weak minded European’s, eh waht can ya do:P
but might I add the deranged Salafi’s insane speculation’s and theory’s should only be more proff to my theroy that Arabs must be watched.
What happened to the equality of men?
What happened to Islam being for everyone?
Well my friend it is….. Its for all the dwellers of the Universe. But of those dweller’s their is a group of people known as the Arabs amongst them… Who like their brothers in Linage Benu Israel, enjoy manipulating the words of Allah for their own worldly gain…. Political Correctness will not help us, Yousef, we must find the Arabofacists and exterminate them wherever they may be. for the Good of the Ummah. And unfortunatly we must watch the Arabs VERY closley. While all Arabs are not Arabofacist’s a good chunk are.
They are perverters of the Deen. Not only this but time and time again they have alligned with the Kuffar to undermine the Ummah, most recently the Allaiance with the Christian’s against the Ottaman Caliphate. They are truley the enemies of Islam. Read the history of the Arab people’s and you shall see that it is always the Arabs who are working to undermine the Ummah. They are tricky creature’s these Semite’s. But Inshallah someone will put them back in place, maybe the nice lesbian women Lynndie England with her leash:P
but he chose to degrade all Arabs because of the once-Shia Arabs ruling North Africa
Heaven’s No. I am mearly being practicual. The persecution continiues to this Day do you not remember Black September in Kabylie in 2001?
The only reason I became defensive was because of your Pan-Arabistic Arabofacist hatemongering, where you began to spew baseless Nazi-eaq rethoric of “Arab Land” this and colonial “conspiracy” that.
What a stupid kid
Insulting the one whom you are debating is the Ultimate sign of inferiority.:P
Since you are not intelectually reigorus enough top counter my statements you take to childish name calling.
Of all Arabs ever existing, I take pride in being related to those who conquered the known world in the dawn of Islam, and those who will re-conquer it again (and already started), who are now in Iraq, Afghanistan, Chechnya & Palestine
LOL. Now who is stupid? The Arab’s where a cancer in Chechnya, and Dargestan, as well as Bosnia and Kosovo. The Arabs brought the fall of the Taliban, and the whole bloody Afghan state! Like I stated you people have been and always will be the scourage of this ummah. The future of Islamdom in my opinion lies not with genital mutilating, feminicidal, child abusers whom inhabit Arabia, but with the proud people of Pakistan and the Sub-Continent, as well as the brothers in Malaysia and Indonesia. The Arabs are the Muslim Ummahs burden, we must tolerate you because of our respect and love for the Prophet(SWS) and because you inhabit our Holy Land’s but if you think that we shall allow you to continue to commit treason against this ummah, you sir are SADDLY mistaken.
July 26, 2007 at 2:49 pm
All I can say is that I love the Mujahidin, but I’m not one of them.
Whom are these Mujahidin you speak of? Their is no Caliphate…. who dispatched them? I am afraid these folks are nothing more then Mischeif maker’s under Islamic Law.